Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/11/1994 01:15 PM House JUD
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
February 11, 1994
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman
Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Gail Phillips
Rep. Joe Green
Rep. Cliff Davidson
Rep. Jim Nordlund
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 331: "An Act relating to claims on permanent fund
dividends for defaulted public assistant
overpayments."
MOVED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
AND FISCAL NOTES
HJR 22: Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska relating to membership of the
legislature.
HEARD AND HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 104
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-4919
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 331
JAN HANSEN, Director
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Phone: 465-3346
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 331
MARVEEN COGGINS
Legislative Aide
Rep. Cynthia Toohey
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 104
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-4919
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 331
KARLA SCHOFIELD, Accounting Supervisor
Division of Administrative Services
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: 465-3852
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on fiscal note for
HJR 22
LARRY LABOLLE
Legislative Aide
Rep. Richard Foster
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 420
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-3789
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Rep. Foster,
Prime Sponsor of HJR 22
JOE SWANSON, Director
Division of Elections
Office of the Lieutenant Governor
P.O. Box 110017
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-4611
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on fiscal note for
HJR 22
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 331
SHORT TITLE: USE PFD'S TO RECOVER WELFARE OVERPAYMENTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2014 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2014 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2014 (H) JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/11/94 (H) JUD AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HJR 22
SHORT TITLE: LEGISLATURE OF 25 SENATORS, 50 REPS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) FOSTER,Davidson
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/01/93 197 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/01/93 197 (H) CRA, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,
FINANCE
02/05/93 240 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DAVIDSON
04/13/93 (H) CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124
04/13/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
04/14/93 1198 (H) CRA RPT 3DP 3NR
04/14/93 1198 (H) DP: WILLIAMS, SANDERS, OLBERG
04/14/93 1198 (H) NR: TOOHEY, WILLIS, BUNDE
04/14/93 1198 (H) NR: TOOHEY, WILLIS, BUNDE
04/14/93 1198 (H) -2 FISCAL NOTES (GOV, LAA)
4/14/93
01/25/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/25/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/26/94 2156 (H) STA RPT 1DP 4NR 1AM
01/26/94 2156 (H) DP: OLBERG
01/26/94 2156 (H) NR: SANDERS,G. DAVIS,B. DAVIS,
VEZEY
01/26/94 2157 (H) AM: KOTT
01/26/94 2157 (H) -3 FISCAL NOTES (GOV,GOV,LAA)
1/26/94
01/26/94 2157 (H) REFERRED TO JUDICIARY
02/11/94 (H) JUD AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 120
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-21, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN PORTER called the meeting to order at 1:47 p.m. on
February 11, 1994. A quorum was present. He said the first
order of business would be HB 331.
HB 331 - USE PFD'S TO RECOVER WELFARE OVERPAYMENTS
Number 023
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 331, testified that
the legislation speaks about permitting claims on permanent
fund dividends (PFD'S) for defaulting on public assistance
overpayments. She said this bill would give the Department
of Health and Social Services (DHSS) the authority to
collect delinquent public assistance overpayments by
administering the garnishment of an individual's PFD. Rep.
Toohey explained that currently there are outstanding debts
in excess of $1 million and frequently individuals will
agree to pay back the overpayments, but don't, and HB 331
will enable DHSS to recover overpayments by a less
expensive, more expedient administrative procedure.
REP. TOOHEY told the committee HB 331 is supported by the
DHSS and the Department of Revenue, and in addition, there
are two positive revenue generating fiscal notes from DHSS,
and a zero fiscal note from the Department of Revenue.
Number 083
REP. PHILLIPS asked if there were any conflicting statutes
that would disallow or prevent this from happening.
Number 103
JAN HANSEN, Director, Public Assistance, DHSS, said no, but
there are other priorities ahead of them in statute that
they would fall behind.
Number 120
REP. DAVIDSON asked Rep. Toohey if HB 331 would apply when
the overpayment was the result of bureaucratic or
administrative error.
Number 130
MS. HANSEN clarified that HB 331 would apply to the AFDC
program, under which they are required to pursue claims
whether it is the agency's error or the client's error. She
said in regards to the food stamp program that they cannot
require repayment, which means they would not be garnishing
for food stamp overpayments that were the result of agency
error.
Number 140
Rep. Davidson added for the record that because we are
dealing with people who are right on the cutting edge of
poverty, we know when they get an extra amount that it is
probably going to be spent one way or another. He asked if
HB 331 would affect children receiving AFDC by garnishing
their PFD's.
Number 152
MS. HANSEN replied no; HB 331 doesn't apply to anyone who is
on AFDC, it only applies for the repayment of claims of
people whose cases are now closed. She said if an
individual is still on AFDC, then they do a reduction in
their benefits of ten percent, and under HB 331, they would
only garnish the PFD of the adults in the household, and
even on closed cases they would not garnish the PFD check of
any child.
Number 174
REP. DAVIDSON asked if it was correct that there was $1
million in outstanding claims.
Number 179
MS. HANSEN responded that there are approximately 750 cases,
with up to $500,000 in outstanding claims; however, there is
no way all of that is going to be collectable since many of
these people have long since left the state of Alaska. She
referred the committee to the fiscal note, which shows that
the collection amounts are small. She added that they
contact people so they know their PFD may be garnished, and
some of those people may choose to make the payment rather
than have their PFD garnished.
Number 216
REP. PORTER asked Ms. Hansen to describe a typical
overpayment case.
Number 221
MS. HANSEN replied that they are talking about agency and
client-caused and not necessarily fraudulent cases. She
explained that some of it is because of technicalities, the
agency sometimes has to prospectively in advance determine
how much income a person's going to have and use that
against their case, and then later if their income turned
out to be higher than that, the agency is required in the
future to place a claim to even out what that was. Ms.
Hansen explained another scenario where it would be
considered agency error if the client told the agency that
they went to work and sent in a paycheck, and the worker
(agency) didn't call the employer to verify whether there
was another paycheck, and in fact there were more earnings
than had been reported. She described other situations
which could cause overpayments.
Number 258
REP. PORTER commented that one of the criticisms on HB 331
could be that the agency should just clean up its act so
there wouldn't be any overpayments, but Ms. Hansen's
explanation clearly shows that isn't possible because of the
situations she described.
Number 262
REP. NORDLUND asked why there was no section in HB 331
regarding the section in law that talks about the order
payments may be deducted from PFD to AFDC, and referred to
the list that is currently in statute.
Number 272
MS. HANSEN replied that this will not appear in the list,
and the last part of the list refers to "other" agencies
that have the authority to garnish PFD's, and HB 331 would
give them the authority to fall under "other." She added
that the agency hasn't asked for a particular priority in
the listing, other than lumped with the "other," and the
reason is that if they did so it would require additional
work and programing on the part of the Permanent Fund
Division, and they wouldn't be able to get the benefit of
that this year.
Number 290
MARVEEN COGGINS, legislative aide to Rep. Toohey, clarified
that the section that has the list in it is followed by a
section that expands on the student loan collection process,
and HB 331 would be a new section which follows that
section, so it would be a separate section.
Number 301
REP. JAMES made a motion to move HB 331 out of committee
with individual recommendations and fiscal notes attached.
Hearing no objection, it was so moved.
Number 344
REP. PORTER announced that HJR 22 was next on the agenda.
HJR 22 - LEGISLATURE OF 25 SENATORS, 50 REP'S
Number 389
KARLA SCHOFIELD, Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA), testified
that the LAA was neutral on the bill; however, if passed
they would do what was required to implement the bill.
REP. NORDLUND noted that the fiscal note from LAA was about
$4 million and asked if LAA was taking into account that
they might have to expand the chambers and so on.
Number 389
MS. SCHOFIELD said that number reflected LAA's capital
request and additional space would be needed during the
interim, plus there is probably not enough room in the
Capitol building to accommodate additional legislators.
Number 410
LARRY LABOLLE, legislative aide to Rep. Richard Foster,
Prime Sponsor of HJR 22, testified that the idea behind the
bill is to get people thinking about what legislative
districts will look like during the 2000 reapportionment.
He said the legislature should not be looking in terms of
the number of people represented, but in terms of the
geographical area you have to travel over in terms of
campaigning and trying to address the needs of a widely
diverse area. Mr. LaBolle said Rep. Foster is not looking
at getting the resolution passed this year, but to try to
find as wide a forum as possible and to get as many people,
at least in the legislature, thinking about the concept, and
ultimately it would be up to the people on a constitutional
amendment. Mr. LaBolle said they would not support a change
taking place until redistricting occurs in 2000.
REP. JAMES commented that HJR 22 is probably timely, except
that it looks like there will be a lot of things on the 1994
ballot, and with the current financial situation, it's
probably not a wise idea to have it on the ballot in 1994,
but 1996 would probably be better. She added that she's
also concerned about the representation in the Bush
communities, but technology could help and might be cheaper
than putting more people in the legislature.
Number 492
REP. GREEN noted that the fiscal note starts in 1996, but
the sponsor's intention is not to have the resolution take
effect until 2000, and asked why the fiscal note did not
reflect that.
Number 499
MR. LABOLLE responded that it was unintentional; basically
they are testing the waters.
Number 510
REP. GREEN noted that HJR 22 does have a significant fiscal
note for both operating and capital costs, and it would
impact the state's revenue stream significantly, and in the
meantime we are asking other parts of government to cut
their budgets, and asked for Mr. LaBolle's comments.
Number 528
MR. LABOLLE replied that there is nothing sacrosanct about
the current organization of the legislature. He discussed
the size of legislative staff and said he doesn't think the
legislature can even sustain its current budget.
Number 536
REP. KOTT commented that the committee ought to evaluate
legislation on the merit, not on fiscal considerations,
which should be addressed by the Finance Committee. Rep.
Kott said that the courts require a look at population, but
says nothing about geography. He added that technology will
help in representing rural Alaska.
Number 587
The committee discussed the impact of having 50
representatives and 25 senators, discussed unicameral
legislatures, the fiscal note, and the issue of population
versus geography.
Number 751
JOE SWANSON, Director, Division of Elections, Office of the
Lieutenant Governor, testified regarding the division's
fiscal note, which only addresses reapportionment, and
reminded the committee that with every reapportionment the
state has gone through there have been a number of lawsuits.
He said the one thing Elections did not mention in their
fiscal note is that there would probably be increased ballot
costs in that every additional ballot costs $50,000.
Number 770
MR. SWANSON commented that the Justice Department looks at a
district and whether or not any individual's rights are
infringed on, they do not look at geography, they look at
each district which, under this legislation, would increase
the likelihood of lawsuits.
Number 785
REP. PORTER requested that Mr. LaBolle discuss with Rep.
Foster what action he would like the committee to take
regarding HJR 22.
Number 830
CHAIRMAN PORTER said he would hold HJR 22 until Rep. Foster
indicates what he wants the committee to do with the
legislation.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the House Judiciary Committee at
2:30 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|